Starting + Growing an Architecture Practice
Karen Ognibene
KO&Co Architecture
Meet Karen Ognibene - founder of KO&Co Architecture in Brisbane. After 20 years at leading local design studios, she started her own practice in 2013 and now works with government and not for profit groups to deliver social, affordable and specialist disability housing, and designs some of Brisbane’s most sought after homes. Starting her practice with only herself to rely on, hear how she has grown her business in that time to now have her own standalone studio in Paddington with seven team members.
On making the move from big practice to her own studio
Markedly: You spent 20 years building your career in big design firms. What made you say “I want to start my own practice”?
Karen: I’ve always had a passion for socially responsible architecture and wanted to focus my career predominantly towards designing homes for people within our community who may typically not be exposed to good architecture. While I was at uni, I prepared my thesis on architecture and homelessness, with the purpose of trying to understand what - if anything - architects can do to improve our homeless situation in Australia. That is, rather than solely working with single family households, I wanted to design more social and affordable housing for not for profit clients or government bodies
Markedly: Were there any factors that made it an easier decision to start KO&Co? Did you have a project to go to first? Because for others, when they’re thinking about going out on their own, their first thought is “how am I going to get a job?”. Is that something you thought about consciously first?
Karen: Yes, it was. When I was in my previous practice I never took on private jobs until the last year that I was there. At the last minute, the practice announced they would close for three weeks over Christmas and I didn’t have any holiday plans and a friend of my father in law approached me to design their renovation. And so I did it, and I didn’t put my name on it, just sort of gave them anonymous drawings. After I left that practice, I was still doing contract work for them, and then I took on 4 days a week at a smaller architectural practice. During this time I said to my husband “You know what? The next private job that comes up, maybe I’ll take it seriously and maybe that’s the start of something new”. And the next private job I got a call for was a brand new house in Chapel Hill. So that made the decision fairly easy. I had enough to keep me going for at least 3-4 months. The only set up cost was insurance and computer and software, so I just worked at home by myself.
Karen Ognibene | Photography: Roger D’Souza
The KO & Co Architecture team | Photography: Kate Mathieson
On hiring staff in the early stages
Markedly: At this stage, did you think “I’ll always just keep it to just me” or did you think you’d have to branch out and hire staff?
Karen: I grew tired of managing people in big practices. I’d stopped being an architect and started being a person manager. So at that stage I did think “yeah I’m just going to do this by myself, at home, no problem”. But what I realised really quickly is that I don’t really enjoy doing just houses all of the time – not full time anyway. The projects that I loved were the bigger and more complex ones which I just couldn’t do by myself. An old client started giving me some work, but I could only get it to a point where I could lodge a Development Approval (DA) and then the project would be handed to a bigger practice. And that’s when I thought, ‘I’m going to take this seriously’. After 12 months, I’d moved out of working from home and into an office and started to take on contractors for set projects.
Markedly: So did you take people on as staff or as short term, 3-6 month contracts?
Karen: Contractors on a project by project basis.
Markedly: And was that so you could manage finances more easily?
Karen: Yes, that and cash flow. They were experienced architects but also sole practitioners who had their own ABN and their own projects, so they weren’t employees as such. It was a little easier.
Markedly: So at what point did you realise you had to take on your own staff - that you would be employing and managing under KO&Co?
Karen: After 18 months I was still doing majority houses, but there was one project which was a mental health facility at Nundah that got through DA and I’d put in a fee proposal to be principal consultant under the project manager. I was approached by five project managers to continue the DA drawings through to documentation. And that was the point I realised there was no way I could do this by myself, as there were still other houses under construction as well as other projects at early stages, so that’s when I put on two staff as permanent staff.
Markedly: And did you decide to get people who were already registered as architects or did you get students?
Karen: The first person was an experienced graduate, heading towards registration. The other person was an architectural technician who was an ex-builder. So neither were registered architects but neither were they juniors.
Markedly: You’ve hired architects since then, so at what point did you decide that you really needed that? And was it from a design perspective or more from a capability perspective?
Karen: Capability - and the fact that we were getting more and more projects - we actually needed project leaders to run them. There’s only so much I can do in terms of being the main point of contact for consultants and builders. Clients to this day know who I am, and while I might not be running the job, I do come and go to meetings. That’s not something I will ever let go of. But in terms of everyday running and documentation, yes, the architects do it. And I felt that if I was going to do that - put someone else in front of a client and a consultant and those people would be running projects - it had to be an architect. It couldn’t be someone like a student or a recent graduate.
On what her role is like now
Markedly: Now that you have more people within your team, how has your job changed? Has it now, almost, gone back to what it was in big practice where you had to do a lot of people management?
Karen: No, still not so much. There is more of the people management side, and I don’t have any administration support so I do pay runs and invoicing and resourcing and ordering toilet paper [laughs] – that is all me! And running projects. I suppose what has changed, is that there’s not a single project that goes beyond the initial stage of design that doesn’t have a second person working on it. I can’t manage jobs through documentation or under construction anymore, I just don’t have the time.
Markedly: So do you try and stay involved as much as you can in the early design stages?
Karen: Yes. Typically, any residential, commercial, apartments, houses, I do the early design on every project. If it’s a school project, because my expertise is not space planning of schools, my colleague, Louise, will generally start it. Then we’ll sit down and do a design review and massage things together to get that last bit of design thinking resolved.
Markedly: And up to a standard you’re happy with?
Karen: Yes – I am involved in every project in some capacity for the duration of the project.
Markedly: Do you find that’s a lot of responsibility though? Is that a lot of pressure on you?
Karen: Heaps! Yes, it’s heaps of pressure
Markedly: But do you think that you will ever get to a point where you will ever be able to branch that out to someone else?
Karen: No, I'm not sure, but I don't think so.
Markedly: Is that because you just want to keep it to the ethos of what you want to achieve?
Karen: No, well… yes a little bit! Because 99% of our work is referral based, and I want to keep the relationship, I feel a huge sense of responsibility and often people are referred to us because of me. Schools aside. With our school projects, Government asks us to tender because of Louise and so I am comfortable with her starting the design for the schools.If one of the other architects brought a job in, then yes, that’s a different story and I do find myself letting go a little.
Photography | Kate Mathieson
View House | Photography: Kate Mathieson
View House | Photography: Kate Mathieson
On setting goals + building a reputation for the practice
Markedly: When you first started KO&Co, did you have any big goals for the business?
Karen: Yes, I wrote a business plan! Which I have to revisit this year because it’s been five years since I wrote it. My big audacious goal that I set myself was to become a leader in social and affordable housing in Brisbane. And my direct competitors were Cox, Deike Richards, Arkhefield; they were the three main ones. And I’ve done it, so I’m pretty happy about that!
Markedly: Now that you’re going to go back and reset goals, and because you’ve grown as a practice, do you think your goals have changed or will change?
Karen: Hmm [thinks], I don’t know, to be honest. Because, yes, maybe my audacious goal could be to become a national leader in that sector, but in terms of changing what we do, how we do it – no.
Markedly: Because you like what you’re doing, but perhaps it’s that you want more depth?
Karen: Yes, and I think also my focus in the next five years is expanding my client base. We do a lot of work for Not For Profits in the disability housing sector, but there’s still a lot more out there that I haven’t been in touch with, mainly because I’ve always had work. But I need to do that at some point. We might be well known in the industry for what we do but we have a very small client base considering, if that makes sense?
Markedly: So do you think you’re well known because of the work that you’ve done or is it more about profiling yourself?
Karen: No, it’s just on the work. I’m not good at marketing and social media; sprewking our wares [laughs]
Markedly: But you have sat on panels before right?
Karen: Yes, but that’s come from the work that I’ve done and then been invited to sit on those panels
Markedly: Rather than you seeking it out?
Karen: Yes, exactly.
Hill House | Photography: Angus Martin
On clients + working in different sectors
Markedly: How do you marry up the mix between projects that are really different for your client base? You’ve got these high end house clients, versus affordable housing. How do you manage that from a client perspective? Are either party interested in what you are doing with the other sector? Do people wonder why you do it?
Karen: It’s interesting. That’s one of the bits I love about what we do. It’s that juxtaposition. And I often say to high end clients ‘we’re responsible with your money because we work in the space of social and affordable housing. We have to be responsible with Government money or the Not For Profit’s money, so we won’t go crazy on your house to a point where we exceed your budget’. So I sell that to them. Occasionally we will get the odd high end house client that raises an eyebrow when you say you do social housing.
Markedly: Really? Why do you think that is?
Karen: For me, it’s usually an indication that I don’t really want to work with that client. Because all of the clients that we do have are great about it. We often joke that we had one particular house in the office wherethe budget was the same as ten apartments for people with a disability which we were designing at the same time!.
Markedly: Wow, that puts it into perspective.
Karen: Yes, and that client thought it was cool that we do social and affordable housing. So for me, they were the client for me.
Markedly: You’ve moved into education and other sectors too more recently, even though that’s not your personal background as such. Has that really come from your team or was that a strategic decision?
Karen: Yes, it’s come from employing Louise, and for her as an architect, that is where her passion lies. Her primary focus in her career has been the education sector.
Markedly: Has it been good for you, though, to open up to a new sector and have to learn and open up your mind to something new?
Karen: Yes, definitely. And to be honest, I set a rule fairly early on that we don’t do work for developers. Some people look at me and go “that’s crazy!”. And while I’m an expert in multi res [apartments], I’ve done a lot in my time, but I’d rather use those skills to help Not For Profits than developers. And for me the education side is a natural progression in working with people who wouldn’t otherwise engage with an architect, if that makes sense? The thousand kids at one primary school all of a sudden have got this awesome, architecturally designed building which completely changes their learning environment!
Markedly: That they would never have been a part of before or exposed to before…
Karen: And that’s what I love about it
Jingeri Glenalva Terrace units | Photography: Graham Philip
Detail at Jingeri Glenalva Terrace units | Photography: Graham Philip
On working with Brisbane Housing Company
Markedly: You work closely with Brisbane Housing Company (BHC). I saw the Jingeri Glenalva Terrace units [pictured] you designed won a UDIA Excellence Award. People have responded really positively to that project. BHC made a wonderful video about it too. Why do you think people have connected to that; what’s drawn them to it?
Karen: People have connected to it for different reasons. The street that it’s located in is right on the train line and it’s full of 1990’s and 2000’s apartment buildings that houses got knocked down for. None of them were particularly nice. But since the BHC units were finished, a lot of these surrounding unit blocks have been refurbished. They’ve rendered their walls and repainted, and I think, “oh wow, you know that’s affordable housing that you’re comparing yourself against?!”.
Markedly: They probably don’t even realise, simply because it’s well designed and looks good!
Karen: Exactly. Then there’s the way the people in the disability sector have responded. They say “we want one of those buildings. How do we get one of those buildings?”. And also for the tenants that live there, it is literally life changing for them. Some of those tenants were still living at home with their parents. That was the whole basis of it - that it could give them somewhere safe that they could live, which is huge.
Markedly: So do they have carers who come to help them as well?
Karen: Someone might come and help them do their groceries or clean. But all of them are completely able bodied, mentally cognoscente. They don’t need full time carers. . The units are one bedroom apartments, designed so that people can live independently, but most tenants do need someone to come and check in on them and make sure they’re ok. And the tenants also check in on each other, which introduces an amazing sense of community!
On the challenges of starting + running an architecture practice
Markedly: Early on, what were some of the big challenges?
Karen: Everything was scary [laughs]. The first challenge of starting my business was that I couldn’t market myself from any of the work that I had done at previous firms. Yes, I could include it in my CV when I was going to meet people, but effectively I was building a website with nothing on it. 20 years of expertise, but you can’t put it on your website. That was really hard. So the two things I used to market myself was the little private job that I did in that Christmas holiday period and my own house that I’d renovated and that’s it.
Markedly: So then how did you then market yourself? Was it about re-establishing contacts?
Karen: Yes, and then once I prepared a fee proposal I could include my personal CV which had photos of previous projects and say “I was project architect on this job”
Markedly: I think that is a big challenge for other people when they go out on their own and that terrifies them. That they have all this experience but they can’t use it themselves
Karen: Some people just don’t care and do it anyway; put the pictures up on their website. But I couldn’t, it’s just not me. Hiring staff is always challenging too, whether you’re starting up or employing more people. Because finding the right person with the right skills, the right attitude is really hard [laughs].
Markedly: Did you ever go and seek help from recruitment agents? Or did you just go on your network and gut feeling on hiring?
Karen: The first two people I hired were both from word of mouth. Actually, the first five people I hired were from word of mouth! Then the last two I advertised.
Markedly: Did you find any difference between either of those options?
Karen: No not really. Because you go through the same process of interviewing.
Markedly: So now that you’ve been established for 6 years, what do you think is different now, from a day-to-day basis and everyday challenges, compared to when you first started and everything was scary and new and a challenge? Is there anything different, or is it still kind of similar?
Karen: Still kind of similar [laughs]! It’s still scary, because in architecture it’s just an industry that one month you’ll just have so much work that you can’t sleep, and the next month you’ll be sitting there twiddling your thumbs. And it doesn’t matter if you’ve been established for 6 years or 50 years, that doesn’t change. It’s just the nature of the industry. I think very early on, I suppose from years at other firms, I knew not to stress about not being able to see beyond 3 months of work and cashflow.
Markedly: How do you do that though? Do you manage finances so you have a weekly income so it doesn’t impact that?
Karen: I pay myself a salary. For the first couple of years I didn’t, when we got paid, then that would be my salary and I’d just put money aside for tax. But now I pay myself a salary, and then at the end of the year if we do make a profit, it just still sits with the company because I’m so nervous that there will be a year that we don’t make a profit, and then that money will be needed. The other challenge is leasing an office. Everything is long term. You know, initially I moved into a serviced office where it was a month by month arrangement. I’d recommend that to anyone that’s starting up. There are so many places now in Brisbane where you can do that.
Corner House | Photography: Roger D’Souza
Corner House | Photography: Roger D’Souza
The KO & Co studio in Paddington | Photography: Kate Mathieson
On leasing their own space
Markedly: Now that you’ve moved into your own office, how long term is it?
Karen: All up we’ve got three years, with two three year options to extend. So potentially ten years. But I had to negotiate quite a bit to get it down to three years. Most landlords wanted minimum 4 or 5 years.
Markedly: And did you get help with that process?
Karen: No, just my risk averse nature! [laughs]. The other thing with finding an office - we pay a premium for where we are. We could have leased more space in the city without a car park for the same money or a bit less, but that was important to me to not be in the city. Even for our Government or Not For Profit clients, they like that they’re not going into the city for a meeting and they all walk in and say “this is really cool, it feels nice, and it feels like a home”.
Markedly: And that’s more you and suits your brand and your clients.
Inside the KO & Co Studio | Photography: Kate Mathieson
On the highlights of starting a business
Markedly: Through the ups and downs of business have there been some pretty good highlights as well? Has it all been worthwhile?
Karen: Yes, definitely! Has there been moments where I thought I could pack it all in? Yeah, there has. Sometimes it gets so stressful, particularly being a sole business owner. The business development side is pretty much reliant on me, cash flow is reliant on me. Doing a lot of Government work we have to pay a hell of a lot of sub consultant fees; there is a lot of money that goes out every month to pay consultants often before we get paid by Government. So there are days that I think “geez, I could go and earn the same salary that I’m paying myself, back in a big practice”.
Markedly: So what keeps you going then?
Karen: Just seeing our clients so happy, and getting the feedback from people that “you guys are so different to other architectural practices”. I love that.
Markedly: That’s a pretty amazing feeling. It’s what you set out to do, to start something different that wasn’t like a big practice. So in saying that, do you want to grow any more, or is this it? Or is it like at the beginning where you said to yourself “it will only be me!”.
Karen: I was very conscious when I leased a space that there were 7 desks. That was deliberate.
Markedly: So is that like a self imposed boundary as to how much you can take on? [laughs]
Karen: I suppose with the mix of work that we do - for the residential clients, 99% of them are referred to us. If you tell them you can’t start their house for three months they normally respond pretty well. They’ll say, “that’s fine, we’ll wait”. It helps a lot when managing workload.
Markedly: So do you have any other short term goals for KO&Co?
Karen: Um, just survive [laughs]. I mean, next year the global economy could tank. It is looking more likely than it has since 2008. We could be facing another recession. To survive that and hold seven people, I think that’s a pretty big deal.
Inside the KO & Co studio | Photography: Kate Mathieson
Karen’s tips for starting your own practice
Markedly: Any other last-minute tips for anyone starting out, or deciding whether to go out on their own, or how they might go about starting their own business?
Karen: If you think you work long hours for another practice, think again [laughs]. You can add 20% onto that for running your own business.
Markedly: That’s so true! Because you’re so self-invested and in those early days in particular – those first 6 – 9 months – you’re so conscious of just getting work, you take everything.
Karen: But in saying that, of the best advice I can give is learn to say no very quickly. It’s really hard the first time, because you’re staring at this project thinking “I don’t need it now, but I could need it”. But all that will happen is you will screw up that project and another one in the process, because you’ll just stretch yourself too thinly. So, go with your gut, and say no.
Markedly: Do you find that is the same with saying no to particular clients as well, not necessarily just projects?
Karen: Yes, 100%.
Markedly: Trusting your gut instinct on personalities and hearing the warning signs is important
Karen: Definitely. Two years ago we made a big change in our practice. We became ISO 9001 certified for Quality Assurance. I’m a very type A personality anyway, so we had checklists and spreadsheets, everything was pretty much already in line. We got a consultant in so that our reporting side was up to scratch and one of the things she asked me was, “how do you know whether to take on a job or not?”. And I said ‘gut feel’ straight away. And she said ‘ok, but how can we quantify that?”, and I said “I don’t know, it’s gut feel” [laughs]. And so we made a project suitability checklist that has about 20 questions. Every single project that we put a fee proposal on has that checklist completed after I meet that client.
Markedly: And do you think it’s made a difference?
Karen: Yes, massive! It just sort of cements my gut feel!
Markedly: It reassures you that you’re making the right decision. I like that idea. Thanks Karen, it was great to hear about your practice and how you’ve grown the business over the years. Thanks for being so open to the conversation – I’m sure it will help a lot of other practices starting out.